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Model Concepts

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Model Concepts:

An Interview with John Goodson and John Duncan

December 16, 2000 — John Goodson and John Duncan share more in common than a first name. The two of them are concept model makers on Episode II, and are responsible for helping envision the droids, vehicles and starships that will appear on the screen in 2002.

Working from illustrations provided by Episode II Design Director Doug Chiang other concept artists, these model makers construct detailed miniatures of Episode II’s hard-surfaced machinery, allowing effects artists as well as director George Lucas to look at all angles of an imaginary device before it is built full size or rendered digitally.

The process usually begins with several drawings showing the subject from different vantage points. From there, the model makers draw some refined sketches to extrapolate the angles, proportions and shapes. They begin construction of preliminary small models – typically from three to four inches long – to explore the look of the models. Once that look is approved, the larger model work begins, often between 14 and 18 inches in size.

“John Duncan and John Goodson are probably two of the best conceptual modelers I’ve ever worked with,” says Chiang. “They have just an incredible ability to translate two dimensional drawings into a three dimensional objects that are in many ways far superior to the original designs. They always contribute and add something more. It’s a important function, because once we get something approved on paper, we need to visualize it very quickly three dimensionally.”

Recounts Chiang, “Probably the best example of this would be the Naboo starfighter. That design was already very sleek when drawn on paper. But when I handed it over to John Duncan he made it even more elegant and refined. It’s that kind of working relationship where the design slowly starts to evolve until it’s the final product.”

Both Duncan and Goodson modeled many of the vehicles seen in Episode I. “Let’s see, there was the landing ship, the Trade Federation tank, Sith speeder, Republic cruiser, Coruscant taxi, the Gungan submarine,” recounts Goodson.

“I did the original maquette for the Naboo fighter,” recalls Duncan. “I worked on the battle droid, every incarnation of the MTT, the pit droid, a number of shuttlecraft, Valorum’s shuttle, the STAPs… I almost have to sit down with a list of pictures and say, ‘yeah, I worked on that, that and that.'”

The two can trace their passion for model making back to childhood. “When I was about five years old I built my first model kit,” remembers Goodson. “Another kid in the neighborhood took a model and just smashed it to pieces. I was so fascinated with that I went and collected all the little pieces of it and pieced this thing back together again.” Although the end result, an airplane, was made from shattered fragments with a candy bar cardboard sleeve for wings, Goodson remembers it as a masterpiece. A steady diet of Star Trek, Space 1999, and Starlog magazine fostered in Goodson a love for miniature ships.

“Star Trek was one of my first fascinations when I was a kid,” concurs Duncan. “I had a job mowing lawns and I used to go out as soon as I got paid. I’d take my $5 and run down to the local drugstore and buy myself whatever Star Trek model was on the shelf. So I had all those and I put them together and then of course when Star Wars came out, that one really hit home. I was a big C-3PO and R2-D2 fan.”

Aside from his fascination with the droids, Duncan also was a big fan of the darker characters in the series. “I always liked bad guys,” he reveals. “Darth Vader was one of my very favorite characters from the movie, and with other science fictions shows I’ve always leaned towards the bad guys. They’re always more fascinating.”

For Episode II, Duncan got to work on some villainous machinery in the form of new battle droids. “I made the original maquette of the battle droids for Episode I, and I’m working on the new battle droid for Episode II. That’s the one I can’t wait to see on the screen. I just love robots; Lost in Space, Robbie the Robot, Metropolis, all those classics.”

Goodson also has experience in designing mechanical monsters. “The destroyer droid from Episode I was actually a lot of fun,” he recalls. “I worked on two versions of that, one coiled up in a ball and the other version where it’s standing. I also made a really crude kind of paper and plastic model that would kind of unfold, just to work out the mechanics of it all.”

Prior to their work in the Art Department, both Duncan and Goodson were veterans of ILM’s Model Shop. Duncan’s first project at ILM was helping realize the famous Acura commercial wherein a full-sized car appears to zip through a giant Hot Wheels racetrack. Duncan experienced a childhood thrill when he helped construct the Enterprise-E for Star Trek: First Contact.

As a longtime fan of the Star Wars movies, Duncan was taken aback by the possibility of working on Episode I. “It caught me off guard because there were a lot of people who had been here a lot longer than I had. I guess I impressed the right people and lucked into it. I was very excited. Steve Gawley was the one that came and told me,” recounts Duncan. Gawley had been one of Duncan’s heroes, having worked in the model shop on the original Star Wars trilogy. “It was so funny because the first project I ever worked on at ILM, I got to work with Steve Gawley and I remember going home and telling my wife, ‘I get to call him Steve!’ That he’s the one that told me that they were interested in having me up at the Ranch for Episode I is so funny.”

After his stint in Episode I’s Art Department, Duncan took his model making expertise to ILM, where he would help create the actual shooting models based on the designs of the concept models. “What’s different is that in the Art Department, one artist generally works on one model. At the ILM Model Shop, you get 10 people working on one thing. For the Trade Federation battleship for Episode I, I think just about everybody in the Model Shop had some little piece of that somewhere along the way.”

Goodson also worked at ILM, merging his schooling in industrial design with his childhood fascination of building models into a full-time career. “The job was supposed to be ‘come in for a week,’ and that’s going on 13 years now, so I think it’s worked out perfectly. To wind up working on Star Wars, it’s absolutely amazing to me.”

Despite being involved in cutting edge filmmaking, Goodson eschews computers for a more hands-on approach. “The most sophisticated I get is a calculator,” he says. “Five years ago everybody was totally paranoid that computer graphics would wipe us out. But it’s dependent upon the visual effects supervisor as to what they feel is the best approach. Certain effects supervisors, like John Knoll, love to have models. Even if he’s going to do the whole sequence in CG he loves to have models for lighting reference and shadows and all that stuff.”

Goodson believes there will always be a need for physical models in the concept phase. “I think it’s much harder to see things when you design in a computer,” says Goodson. “I call it going from hands-on to hands-tied because you can put a design on a computer, and put it on a turntable, but it is not the same thing as being able to take it out and hold it in your hand and look at it. Models are little version of reality. People are always intrigued with looking at the detail. Pilots that have flown a B17 in World War II have models of B17s. It’s a fascination.”

Of interest to long-time Star Wars fans is the gradual aesthetic shift from the smooth streamlined designs of Episode I to the more plate-and-armored look of the classic trilogy. “You’re definitely starting to see things that are going to integrate these first movies into the original three films,” says Goodson. “There’s definitely that theme that’s starting to come in. There were a few things that looked like traditional Star Wars — the Federation Battleship and the Republic Cruiser in particular had that kind of plated look with little chunks taken out of the edge of the plating and little chips for detail. But we’re now seeing things that are starting to kind of cross that line.”

Designs adapt and improve as the story progressed. A starfighter design originally intended for evil-doers in the film found its way to the good guy’s arsenal, allowing Duncan to craft a model that would have otherwise gone discarded. “They just keep moving things around,” says Duncan. “If it doesn’t work for one use, it may look great for another. I know they did that for a number of the creature designs where they started making something for one thing, and then George suggest that by scaling it down, it could be used for something else.”

“There are these huge walls in Doug’s office, one that’s called Hopefuls that are approved art, and the other one’s has unapproved or preliminary art,” says Goodson. “There’s a lot of fantastic artwork on the unapproved wall. And a lot of times they went back to it. George would remember previous designs or concepts and either use them as-is, or use them as jumping-off points for other ideas. A lot of times they’ll go back and they’ll pull things off that wall and use them.”

Of the approved designs that Goodson worked on, the one he’s most eager to see on the screen is a brand new military transport. “I’m really anxious to see that,” says Goodson. “Part of the reason is because Doug did one really dramatic concept painting with them, and he’s done a variety of sketches where he’s got all these really great shots where you’re behind it looking over the wings, and it’s firing missiles down below. It’s pretty cool.”

Despite the long time between a model’s completion and seeing it realized on the big screen, Duncan’s steady work makes the wait bearable. “You’re working on it the whole way through so you don’t just do your stuff and then have to sit and wait. One of the hardest things on Episode I was that there was a lot of time spent building these maquettes and things without seeing any shots. At ILM, you got used to seeing dailies or at least periodically seeing something, which would inspire you to keep going. On Episode I pre-production, it was a year-and-a-half of concept work before even a frame of film was shot, it kind of detached you a little from the project. This time around, however, I have a better idea of what is going on.”

Like their work on Episode I, Duncan and Goodson expect to move down to ILM and work on the post-production end of model making there. “What I’m kind of looking forward to is that we’re going to be doing more miniature sets on this one,” says Duncan. “They found that that worked out really well on Episode I. Instead of building all these full sets, they just build a floor and one wall and did the rest with a miniature. I’m excited about that because that’s what I do.”

Perhaps one of the more interesting aspects of their work is seeing their designs transformed into mass-market models, so that aspiring model makers can now follow in Duncan and Goodson’s footsteps. When Episode I model kits hit the shelves in 1999, Goodson took a close look at some of his handiwork. “You wonder how they’ll translate some of the parts you designed, because there are little personal details. For the MTT, John Duncan put a Honda symbol on the back end of it. The first thing we did when we got the toys was to look for the Honda emblem. But they didn’t replicate that,” smiles Goodson.